Katie Runnel’s latest project, Imperfect Beauty, is more than just an album—it’s a statement of resilience, growth, and the power of embracing imperfections. In this candid conversation, she opens up about her creative influences, her journey through personal trials, and the vision that drives her artistry.
Katie, your sound on “Imperfect Beauty” feels like a spiritual evolution, both sonically and emotionally. Your early work had a folk-rock core, but now you’re embracing ambient, electronic textures. Were there any specific albums or artists that helped open that creative portal for you?
So, after my divorce, I got back into music. I had to start listening to my own music online in order to remember my own lyrics! When I did this, I recall being annoyed with my own music. Also, I knew I wanted to get back into music, but I had to have a bigger vision. And, my vision was to make my music a message: meaningful change happens when we not only accept our imperfections but embrace them. Aroun that same time, I was turned on to the Bjork song “All is Full is Love.” I listened to it non-stop. I thought to myself, “This is what I want to do. This is the kind of music I want to make.” I wanted the “vibe,” the textures, the diverse instrumentation. So, a big shout-out to Bjork. She really inspired me.
There are arguably two common approaches to creating music and art in general. One is to make something you love first and foremost, and if others connect with it, that’s a bonus. The other is to focus on pleasing people who listen to your music and follow your journey. Which narrative is closer to you?
Unequivocally, my narrative falls into the category is to make something I love–FIRST AND FOREMOST. I think the world would be a better place if we all did that. This kind of creation is in alignment with the law of attraction. When we do what we love, we attract love. That is what I believe. I started living life like this when I first started therapy. In therapy, I started being honest with myself. Then, I started living honestly with the world. Authenticity is the greatest magnet. And if people don’t like my authentic “self,” I say, “WONDERFUL! I don’t want you if you don’t want me.” I got into education because I love teaching and literature. I do music, because I LOVE MUSIC. I write songs because I am compelled to get off my chest what is going on in my soul. It is an expression. I have to express in authentic ways. Otherwise, I would be a fraud. And I think we would all agree that we have enough frauds in the world. I love the idea of huge success, but I don’t do what I do to gain notoriety and success. I do what I do because I love it. I also love gardening and dancing and laughing. We all need to find those things we love and do more of those things!
You’ve mentioned Björk as an influence on this latest chapter. What is it about her approach to music or to identity that resonates with you as an artist?
When I was first turned on to Bjork years ago, I respected her because she does does not fit the mold of mainstream society. She is outside the box. She does what she wants. She does things on her own terms. And I respect anyone who lives life like that. It takes courage to live a life outside of the robotic mold in which we were conditioned to live. Artists like Bjork pave the way for other creatives to take courage and live life on their own terms.
There’s an almost meditative stillness in the production of “Imperfect Beauty,” a sense of space and breath. How did you and producer Nic Leo (Le Fay Studios in Sedona) shape that atmosphere? Are you currently working together on new material?
This is a wonderful question, and there is a great story behind it. I was doing a lot of soul searching at the time, and I called a meeting with Nic and one of my best friends, Eli Cohen. Eli had been encouraging me to put more effort into my music, and he wanted to support me in whatever way he could. I arranged for the three of us to have lunch in Sedona, Arizona a little over 2 years ago. I had already started working with Nic on recording a few other songs, and I wanted to talk to Nic and Eli about this new vision I had: Imperfect Beauty. The song “Imperfect Beauty” was first called “Scars.” But I had this vision of inspiring young women and promoting the Wabi Sabi philosophy. I explained to them both how I wanted to do more than just make music, I wanted to inspire and educate, and I wanted to use my passions and experiences to do so. I played them the Bjork song that had the vibe and the sound that I wanted to embody musically, and I explained to them the bigger vision, the bigger picture. Nica and I worked on this song for almost 2 years! I had to fit it in between working 2 jobs. About 6 months after getting started on this project, I felt the need for adventure, so I also started working on my Peace Corps application (I was invited to join to go live in Costa Rica, but that is a whole other story)…. Anyway, I now find myself here, jumping back into this Imperfect Beauty project. I am so excited about it! I get to use all of my knowledge and experiences to inspire others: my experience as an educator, my love of music, and my heartache over failed fertility treatment and a sudden and tragic diovorce, and also my struggles with coping with ADHD–and I get to inspire women to never give up, to face their fears, and to overcome their obstacles.
If you had to create a mixtape that captures the emotional DNA of “Imperfect Beauty” and your current artistic vision, what songs or artists would be on it, and why?
You are full of such wonderful questions! You need a raise! This is good stuff. The DNA of “Impferfect Beauty” is basically my DNA. And I am an eclectic and complex person. You might not be able to decipher it, but in “Imperfect Beauty,” there is a little banjo part. And it is purposefully rough and off key. Nic and I were recording, and I looked up at the banjo hanging on the wall in the studio, and I said, “let’s put some banjo in it.” And I wanted it to be rough sounding. Raw sounding. But at the same time subtle. That is the DNA of the song. That is the DNA of me: I like to fuse sounds, try new things, drive a different way to work, try new restaurants, and experiment with all sorts of things (except drugs… I don’t experiment with hardcore drugs). Life is too short and too meaningful to play it safe all the time to try new things. We have to step out of the box. We need to be willing to experiment.
In blending your work in mental health, education, and music, you’ve created a kind of interdisciplinary activism. How do you balance being both an artist and a systems-changer, and where do those roles blur or feed into each other?
Ok. So once again, I am in awe of this amazing question. Being an artist is an integral part of being a “systems changer.” As an English teacher, I always taught my students that literature reflects the people and the history of the time (seminal eras). For example, I taught Fyodor Dostoevsky’s Crime and Punishment my first 5 years teaching high shcool English. To study music and literature is to study history. As artists, we hold a lot of power in shaping the history. The wars and politics shapes the music and in turn the music and literature can impact the politics and society at large. Music has a PROFOUND ability to influence people. I have a theory on music and why it affects us so much, but that would be a very long response. In short, our natural world, the cosmos, the universe, is full of patterns. The patterns of music (rhythms) mixed with honest, emotional expression, somehow impact us because our bodies–and really all of existence, has rhythmic patterns. And everything meaningful is about connection. I think music helps us connect to the cosmos–something beyond ourselves and our understanding–and we feel (as C.S. Lewis put it) not alone. He said something like, “We read to know we are not alone.” I am paraphrasing, of course. In my younger college years I read a lot of C.S. Lewis, but I do believe he said something like that.
Katie, you’ve spent years working in education and mental health advocacy, both fields that require emotional stamina. Do you believe literature, music, or film can serve as powerful tools for healing? Are there any specific books, songs, or films by other artists that you consider essential for personal growth or reflection?
If there were an award for the best interview questions ever written, you should win this award! I am laughing because it is true. I am pretty impressed, and it takes a lot to impress me. I have lived through a lot of tough shit, and I have been in a lot of different circles. Anyway, I digress. I was reflecting recently on my life and where I am right now. I can tend to get down on myself because I am very intuitive, sensitive, and empathic. I was comparing myself to friends my age who have children who are now having children, who have worked their way up in the corporate world (or whatever world they are in), and I was questioning my choices. Then, I listened to this Andrew Huberman podcast on addiction. He had an addiction therapist on there who talked about how important it is to do uncomfortable things. I had this very visceral epiphany in which I gained a new level of self respect: I was not morally or emotionally or financially supported by my parents (since I was out of the house and went to college). This is because I made the choice to not be entangled in any sort of dysfunctional codependent dynamic. I worked 3 jobs for almost 20 years to get where I am today. I put myself through graduate education, I worked an extra job to record my first album, and I was tirelessly educating myself on how to be emotionally and mentally healthy. So, first, I want to thank Andrew Huberman for his podcast. That really helped me to realize I was strong person and I was on the right track. Secondly, the show “Severance” really helped me to realize how people in our society today so quickly SEVER parts of themselves to avoid pain and be acceptable in society. I have chosen to live a life of integration. It is important that instead of severing parts of ourselves, we integrate them. Those are just a few thoughts of my thoughts on this topic–because seriously, I could go on for hours. The bottom line: stories, narratives, are really what change the world. Music changes the world. On a last note, U2 is a huge influence for me. I love U2 because it is visceral and poetic and honest. When we can experience anything visceral and honest and poetic, we will be compelled to examin our own hearts and and our own way of living.
You were recently named one of the World’s 50 Most Influential Business Women. That is remarkable! Tell us more about this achievement.
I have had an LLC for over 20 years. And to keep it active has not been easy. When I recently started delving into more writing and curriculum development, I was tracked down by this organization that wanted to publish a story on me. I really didn’t believe it first, but I think our culture is hungry for innovative feisty and “different” women like me. I do have a story. And my experience is so eclectic. Recently, it has caught the attention of many different types of organizations. I think it is kind of funny because what got me here was working service industry jobs. Blood, sweat, and tears. That is my story. And the only reason I have learned to be successful is because I have had to work so hard in so many different fields. In retrospect, I am so grateful that things were noto handed to me.
So many women in music are told to shrink themselves, quiet their message, dim their light. What would you say to the younger version of yourself who might have believed that? And what do you hope younger artists take away from your journey now?
I would say to not five 2 fucks about what people think about you. At the end of the day, you will answer to you. Ask yourself who inspires you. Is it a mainstream, cookie cutter person who was spoon-fed their whole life? Probably not. Most of us are inspired by the underdog. So, find that person who inspires you (and hopefully it is someone who embodies courage and grace and fortitude), and start living with those same principles. Have courage! Speak up for what is right! Take up space! Tell the truth! And be ready to be rejected. But learn to be ok with rejection. The right people will not only accept you, they will love and embrace you. And always remember that “People’s rejection is God’s protection.”
Looking ahead, are there any dream collaborations—musical or otherwise—that feel aligned with this new phase of your artistry?
So, I have loved Sting since I was in middle school. I have this dream to collaborate with him and eat dinner at his house with his wife, Trudy. It is such a huge fantasy. I have thought about it for years. “One day,” I tell myself, “I am going to be recording in the studio with Sting, then, he is going to invite me and my husband over for dinner…and we will drink red wine and laugh and have great conversation…” Now, I think it is really hilarious because I don’t even have a husband, but when I started dreaming that dream, I did. So, maybe it could just be my “man.” Or, maybe just me. But the fantasy is that it is like a double date. Anyway, I also dream about collaborating with Andrew Huberman. I am a big fan of his podcast–even though it sometimes takes me a month to get through one episode. I have a lot in common with some of his stories about therapy and 12 Steps and education and even some things he has talked about reagrading childhood trauma. I wish I could have sit down with him. That is a dream. I think that might be in the works. I hope so! As an educator primarily in Title I schools, I would love to share my experiences and compare notes with someone who caters to a whole different demographic. One thing I would love to discuss, for example, is the concept (apparently research backs it) that professors who have a sense of humor are not seen as intelligent (or something like that–I heard that on one of his podcasts). I was so irritated by that because I think funny people, quick-witted people, are the smartest people in the world! So, my theory is that the majority of people are just dull, narrow-minded, and stupid themselves. And, research actually suggests that humor and laughter can actually help us to learn! And I try to use as much humor as I possibly can in the classroom. So, I would like to discuss that with Andrew Huberman.